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goose wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 17:29BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 17:09goose wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 14:47I listed examples of the taxes that have gone up alongside population growth. Unless you wanna claim the two aren’t related?
your reference point is a NI sweetener you’ve had for 6 months, which has now been thrown over to employers and you’ll pay for eventually through retail prices.
we’ve not even started on the impact to public services.Oh so now its not about asylum seekers its population growth in general that causes increased taxes. So why doesnt taxation rise every year again because the population rises every year but not just because of asylum seekers.
Public services are crap Ill grant you, but really are they crap because of asylum seekers?!
I think you just have a problem with asylum seekers lets face it!I’ve referenced population growth about ten times to you billy son - it’s part of immigration which you said has no impact on your life.
tell me how the population is growing, because it certainly isn’t through the birth rate.
You’re desperate to focus solely on asylum seekers in some last ditch attempt for a credible argument.
BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 17:09goose wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 14:47BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 14:10Nope. I am not affected on a daily basis by asylum numbers rising. If I were my tax would have to go up each year at least but it doesnt. I think you are overthinking this. Its really simple.
If year on year Im not taxed more how can I feel like I have been. Its about perception. I personally do not feel like I am taxed more directly due to rising asylum seeker numbers especially when one of the taxes falls significantly. Just like I dont feel like Im taxed more because of the support we have given to Ukraine which is far greater. Well did you feel like you were taxed more last year and do you blame asylum seekers or the invasion of Ukraine by Putin?
And in a year when my tax does go up. I personally do not jump to the conclusion that it’sdue to aslyum seeker numbers rising, especially as the cost of asylum seekers is small when compared to defence or education or the NHS.
I listed examples of the taxes that have gone up alongside population growth. Unless you wanna claim the two aren’t related?
your reference point is a NI sweetener you’ve had for 6 months, which has now been thrown over to employers and you’ll pay for eventually through retail prices.
we’ve not even started on the impact to public services.Oh so now its not about asylum seekers its population growth in general that causes increased taxes. So why doesnt taxation rise every year again because the population rises every year but not just because of asylum seekers.
Public services are crap Ill grant you, but really are they crap because of asylum seekers?!
I think you just have a problem with asylum seekers lets face it!
goose wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 14:47BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 14:10goose wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 13:25It can be identified as an exponential growth in cost over the exact timeline that the population has grown.
As pointed out to you, you don’t get an itemised tax contribution bill - but it only takes a small amount of common sense to see the two are intrinsically linked.
your original post stated that “I am not affected in a daily basis by immigration number”. Which you’ve shown yourself to be completely false.Nope. I am not affected on a daily basis by asylum numbers rising. If I were my tax would have to go up each year at least but it doesnt. I think you are overthinking this. Its really simple.
If year on year Im not taxed more how can I feel like I have been. Its about perception. I personally do not feel like I am taxed more directly due to rising asylum seeker numbers especially when one of the taxes falls significantly. Just like I dont feel like Im taxed more because of the support we have given to Ukraine which is far greater. Well did you feel like you were taxed more last year and do you blame asylum seekers or the invasion of Ukraine by Putin?
And in a year when my tax does go up. I personally do not jump to the conclusion that it’sdue to aslyum seeker numbers rising, especially as the cost of asylum seekers is small when compared to defence or education or the NHS.
I listed examples of the taxes that have gone up alongside population growth. Unless you wanna claim the two aren’t related?
your reference point is a NI sweetener you’ve had for 6 months, which has now been thrown over to employers and you’ll pay for eventually through retail prices.
we’ve not even started on the impact to public services.
BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 14:10goose wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 13:25BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 13:12And you can confidently attribute those rises to the increase in asylum seekers can you?It can be identified as an exponential growth in cost over the exact timeline that the population has grown.
As pointed out to you, you don’t get an itemised tax contribution bill - but it only takes a small amount of common sense to see the two are intrinsically linked.
your original post stated that “I am not affected in a daily basis by immigration number”. Which you’ve shown yourself to be completely false.Nope. I am not affected on a daily basis by asylum numbers rising. If I were my tax would have to go up each year at least but it doesnt. I think you are overthinking this. Its really simple.
If year on year Im not taxed more how can I feel like I have been. Its about perception. I personally do not feel like I am taxed more directly due to rising asylum seeker numbers especially when one of the taxes falls significantly. Just like I dont feel like Im taxed more because of the support we have given to Ukraine which is far greater. Well did you feel like you were taxed more last year and do you blame asylum seekers or the invasion of Ukraine by Putin?
And in a year when my tax does go up. I personally do not jump to the conclusion that it’sdue to aslyum seeker numbers rising, especially as the cost of asylum seekers is small when compared to defence or education or the NHS.
goose wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 13:25BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 13:12goose wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 12:56of course the tax burden is a burden for the general public, otherwise where do you think it’s coming from?
Why 5 years? The population has grown by 7m since 2000.
in that time my tax rate has increased (2010), my council tax has gone up massively, dividends tax has been introduced, capital gains went up, the main rate of NI contribution has been higher right up until April 2024.
that’s without talking about freezing the threshold for tax rates while wages have increased.And you can confidently attribute those rises to the increase in asylum seekers can you?It can be identified as an exponential growth in cost over the exact timeline that the population has grown.
As pointed out to you, you don’t get an itemised tax contribution bill - but it only takes a small amount of common sense to see the two are intrinsically linked.
your original post stated that “I am not affected in a daily basis by immigration number”. Which you’ve shown yourself to be completely false.
BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 13:12goose wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 12:56BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 12:31Seriously!? Did I say it didn’t. But you are clearly not understanding that the tax burden whether its increased or not does not necessarily equate to an increase in tax on the general public.
You seem incapable of answering the question - what tax percentage or rate that you as an individual pays has increased in the last 5 years? Because that is all I am talking about.of course the tax burden is a burden for the general public, otherwise where do you think it’s coming from?
Why 5 years? The population has grown by 7m since 2000.
in that time my tax rate has increased (2010), my council tax has gone up massively, dividends tax has been introduced, capital gains went up, the main rate of NI contribution has been higher right up until April 2024.
that’s without talking about freezing the threshold for tax rates while wages have increased.And you can confidently attribute those rises to the increase in asylum seekers can you?
goose wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 12:56BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 12:31Seriously!? Did I say it didn’t. But you are clearly not understanding that the tax burden whether its increased or not does not necessarily equate to an increase in tax on the general public.
You seem incapable of answering the question - what tax percentage or rate that you as an individual pays has increased in the last 5 years? Because that is all I am talking about.of course the tax burden is a burden for the general public, otherwise where do you think it’s coming from?
Why 5 years? The population has grown by 7m since 2000.
in that time my tax rate has increased (2010), my council tax has gone up massively, dividends tax has been introduced, capital gains went up, the main rate of NI contribution has been higher right up until April 2024.
that’s without talking about freezing the threshold for tax rates while wages have increased.
BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 12:31Seriously!? Did I say it didn’t. But you are clearly not understanding that the tax burden whether its increased or not does not necessarily equate to an increase in tax on the general public.
You seem incapable of answering the question - what tax percentage or rate that you as an individual pays has increased in the last 5 years? Because that is all I am talking about.
ironsofcanada wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 23:07BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 22:51However it doesnt cost me more today than it did 5 years ago or 10 years ago so I dont feel any financial impact in my pay packet in fact taxes e.g. Ees NI went down reducing my tax burden so how does it affect me. Maybe Im just lucky that Im financially sound and dont need to worry about where every penny of my taxes are spent. I only think about it if my overall tax burden increases and I dont feel like it has! I mean VAT went up in 2011 way before the more recent rises in immigration so I cant see where taxes have increased at all.
Maybe you are right that Im apathetic as Im not affected. But some people get angry about immigration but I just am not. Maybe its because you are that you feel the need to point out the expense. I dont know!Maybe to de-esclate a bit, I appreciate your honesty. You came in hot calling people names in subject I care a lot about and I apparently matched that energy.
My last few points were based in fact that your NI constributions are only about 21% (high estimate) of your tax burden. You kept going on about that going down 2% but not mentioning at the other almost 80%, which at least according to the national average has gone up way more that 2% in the last year. We can do the math(s) on whether that means taxes have gone up.
Overall, the "it does afffect me" reminds of the "First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist...." Again something I feel strongly about.
Cheers and have a good night.
BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 22:51However it doesnt cost me more today than it did 5 years ago or 10 years ago so I dont feel any financial impact in my pay packet in fact taxes e.g. Ees NI went down reducing my tax burden so how does it affect me. Maybe Im just lucky that Im financially sound and dont need to worry about where every penny of my taxes are spent. I only think about it if my overall tax burden increases and I dont feel like it has! I mean VAT went up in 2011 way before the more recent rises in immigration so I cant see where taxes have increased at all.
Maybe you are right that Im apathetic as Im not affected. But some people get angry about immigration but I just am not. Maybe its because you are that you feel the need to point out the expense. I dont know!
BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 22:51ironsofcanada wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 22:11BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:51And you seem to be grasping at straws because you dont get how taxes work.
Go on show me where and when any of the current or previous govts have specifically increased taxes due to Asylum seeker numbers increasing.
That budget has always been there as it covers all sorts of foreign aid and yes it goes up and down depending on the need and yes it goes up to cover asylum seekers but at no point in history has any govt raised the rate of VAT or Ees NI or Excise duty specifically to cover in incease in that part of the budget so it does not directly cost me more.
The cost of asylum seekers is so negligible compared to the overall budget that any increase or decrease in that cost wont affect the taxes the individual is asked to pay.
What dont you understand!So unless you get a line item on your taxes that says "For Asylum Seekers" you are not going to believe your taxes are going to the clearly defined costs in that area? Despite acknowledging they cost NHS and other parts of government and knowing your tax burden has increased.
Your VAT did not go down last year, for instance, did it? Your council tax?, Your Income tax? Etc.
Less than savoury politicians loved people like you when I was working in government. Believed everything they said.
Gooses point was that I am affected by asylum seeker numbers on a daily basis. I argue that I am not, your points are about tax rises costing me more.
However it doesnt cost me more today than it did 5 years ago or 10 years ago so I dont feel any financial impact in my pay packet in fact taxes e.g. Ees NI went down reducing my tax burden so how does it affect me. Maybe Im just lucky that Im financially sound and dont need to worry about where every penny of my taxes are spent. I only think about it if my overall tax burden increases and I dont feel like it has! I mean VAT went up in 2011 way before the more recent rises in immigration so I cant see where taxes have increased at all.
Maybe you are right that Im apathetic as Im not affected. But some people get angry about immigration but I just am not. Maybe its because you are that you feel the need to point out the expense. I dont know!
ironsofcanada wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 22:11BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:51And you seem to be grasping at straws because you dont get how taxes work.
Go on show me where and when any of the current or previous govts have specifically increased taxes due to Asylum seeker numbers increasing.
That budget has always been there as it covers all sorts of foreign aid and yes it goes up and down depending on the need and yes it goes up to cover asylum seekers but at no point in history has any govt raised the rate of VAT or Ees NI or Excise duty specifically to cover in incease in that part of the budget so it does not directly cost me more.
The cost of asylum seekers is so negligible compared to the overall budget that any increase or decrease in that cost wont affect the taxes the individual is asked to pay.
What dont you understand!So unless you get a line item on your taxes that says "For Asylum Seekers" you are not going to believe your taxes are going to the clearly defined costs in that area? Despite acknowledging they cost NHS and other parts of government and knowing your tax burden has increased.
Your VAT did not go down last year, for instance, did it? Your council tax?, Your Income tax? Etc.
Less than savoury politicians loved people like you when I was working in government. Believed everything they said.
BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:51And you seem to be grasping at straws because you dont get how taxes work.
Go on show me where and when any of the current or previous govts have specifically increased taxes due to Asylum seeker numbers increasing.
That budget has always been there as it covers all sorts of foreign aid and yes it goes up and down depending on the need and yes it goes up to cover asylum seekers but at no point in history has any govt raised the rate of VAT or Ees NI or Excise duty specifically to cover in incease in that part of the budget so it does not directly cost me more.
The cost of asylum seekers is so negligible compared to the overall budget that any increase or decrease in that cost wont affect the taxes the individual is asked to pay.
What dont you understand!
BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:59ironsofcanada wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:43BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:35Who said there wasnt a cost and I never said we should be paying more or should be letting more in. The argument started by Goose or some other idiot was that increased numbers of Asylum seekers costs ME more in tax.
As I have explained numerous times my taxes have not risen due to asylum seeker numbers rising. In fact last year they were reduced by 2%. I agreed the distribution of my tax may have changed to cover the cost of them but my overall tax bill that I pay either from my salary or VAT etc has not increased.
By all means change the argument after you lose the first one you are good at that!!Let's take slow, so I am clear.
You know that your EES NI is not the sum total your tax burden right? That is what you said went down 2%.
I guess what do you think EES NI means?
Its a waste of time you dont understamd any of it do you.
You thought Ers NI was a tax on the individual!!!!
You are just being pedantic my Ees NI went down by 2% points therefore my tax was reduced not overall by 2% but it still went down significantly. Or are you jow just going to pick me up on that and again change the argument.
Simple question did the taxes I pay rise last year? Answer no they went down.
BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:51goose wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:32BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:23Ffs you really have no idea do you. April 24 Ees NI went down from 10 to 8%.
Are you now going to argue that Ees NI is not a tax
I’m asking billy son, because you seem to think that a pre election sweetner (as you admitted) is somehow a reflection of the change in tax burden over the last 20 years.
honestly, you’re so out of your depth it’s astounding to read.And you seem to be grasping at straws because you dont get how taxes work.
Go on show me where and when any of the current or previous govts have specifically increased taxes due to Asylum seeker numbers increasing.
That budget has always been there as it covers all sorts of foreign aid and yes it goes up and down depending on the need and yes it goes up to cover asylum seekers but at no point in history has any govt raised the rate of VAT or Ees NI or Excise duty specifically to cover in incease in that part of the budget so it does not directly cost me more.
The cost of asylum seekers is so negligible compared to the overall budget that any increase or decrease in that cost wont affect the taxes the individual is asked to pay.
What dont you understand!
goose wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:46 “Over the past decade, the financial impact of illegal immigration on UK taxpayers has escalated significantly. In the fiscal year 2019/20, the Home Office planned to spend £430 million on asylum, border, visa, and passport operations. However, by 2023/24, actual spending had surged to approximately £4 billion, reflecting a substantial increase in costs associated with managing illegal immigration and asylum seekers.”
ironsofcanada wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:43BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:35Who said there wasnt a cost and I never said we should be paying more or should be letting more in. The argument started by Goose or some other idiot was that increased numbers of Asylum seekers costs ME more in tax.
As I have explained numerous times my taxes have not risen due to asylum seeker numbers rising. In fact last year they were reduced by 2%. I agreed the distribution of my tax may have changed to cover the cost of them but my overall tax bill that I pay either from my salary or VAT etc has not increased.
By all means change the argument after you lose the first one you are good at that!!Let's take slow, so I am clear.
You know that your EES NI is not the sum total your tax burden right? That is what you said went down 2%.
I guess what do you think EES NI means?
goose wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:32BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:23Ffs you really have no idea do you. April 24 Ees NI went down from 10 to 8%.
Are you now going to argue that Ees NI is not a taxI’m asking billy son, because you seem to think that a pre election sweetner (as you admitted) is somehow a reflection of the change in tax burden over the last 20 years.
honestly, you’re so out of your depth it’s astounding to read.
