Moyes Out ( Released )

[Keep dreaming]

"Posted the same last year. Nothing has changed, except win don't win matches anymore. I'm fed up, we can do much better"

[claypole]

"I tell you what Nevin, Nolan and Mckinly do, they say yes a lot."

[Takashi Miike]

"Kral would have replaced Soucek, much like Downes would if given a chance. Moyes can't have that, the magnificent seven have to keep starting"

[Jasnik]

They lost 4-0 so wouldn't say he played well with soucek in there too.

[Sir Alf]

"I should have read this thread b4 posting a similar question of Moyes treatment of Kral who was , according to the Czech media, tge shining light of their 0-4 reverse over tge weekend? Kral was / does not appear to be a world beater but more of a worker type and puts tge yards I. So it cannot be that he didn't fit Moyes criteria about having to run. As I said in the other thread, his treatment of Kral was bizarre last season. He started one league game, one maybe two cup games and I think in one he did ok against Man Utd but was not too good in the other but not the worst on the pitch that day. Vlasic never got a run of games in his best and favoured position. Benrahma always removed first in games. You could even argue that although Fornals gets too many minutes he is not and has never been a wide left player. Seems Moyes wants utility players first and foremost. Danger being they are tge proverbial ""Jack of all trades , master of none""ù . Tge exception is central defence which was Moyes own position. I guess none of us can see the logic? It is of course now getting questioned because we are in a downward spiral. Unfortunately none of us are ""on the inside""ù and seeing players train each day? We also don't understand, well I don't anyway, what Moyes roll is? How hands on is he with the daily drills and working out tactics and reviewing the opposition etc. What does Paul Nevin actually do, Nolan the same question and Billy McKinley? Is Moyes just like a general project or program manager , setting objectives and general guidance on tactics, game plans, fitness etc but handing over actual day to day implementation to his coaching team? Anyone have any insights? He's currently and has been largely failing in his job for a fair few months so whatever tge roles and responsibilities and processes they ain't working but nonetheless it would be good to know."

[JayeMPee]

"I see a report now that Kral is doing well away from us, Vlasic too. Meanwhile we lose Perkins and appear in danger of also losing Johnson and Ashby, whatever the policy is at our club right now (if there is one) it is crap!!!"

[boleyn8420]

"On Saturday we all know that Moyes will once again play exactly the same players in exactly the same formation and apply the same tactics, expecting it to change. The definition of madness. When he does and we draw or lose to Wolves he should be sacked immediately, never mind waiting for the fucking World Cup"

[JayeMPee]

"My recollection of the January fiasco was that Moyes said he would not buy any player who could not add something to the team. He said the same in the summer and spent close to £180m on players who presumably met his selection criteria, so why do most sit on the bench??? His team selection and tactics are pathetic, he is not using the resources he brought in. Also has it not dawned on him yet that Antonio is not a striker, he is a pacey winger who can play either side and score goals. Haller may have been brilliant had the two played in the same lineup, how long before Scamaca and Antonio play in the same side? He himself said he was a ditherer when it came to signings, well he is no better at team selection. Such a pity that Pearce and Irvine left."

[Texas Iron]

"Former Tottenham and Paris St-Germain manager Mauricio Pochettino is keen on the possibility of managing Aston Villa. Steven Gerrard is currently in charge of the Midlands club. (Football Insider) If he's considering Villa""¶ Surely WHUFC should be more attractive to him""¶"

[Willtell]

Absolutely agree with your point Meerkat but why would Moyes lie about it? I'll give you Downes but everyone else? I doubt it

[Meerkat]

"No conspiracy theory Willtell . Manuel made my point better than I did , that being , aside from Aguerd , the other signings seem like second choices and Moyes is acting the prick with the game timing he is giving them ."

[Irons10]

Fuck the dinosaur off and get Sir Alf in on a 2 year deal

[Sir Alf]

"You are correct WillTell I understated the block which is 4 or 5 in midfield :-) but the point being the sitting back and counter attacking has been sussed and now teams defend it fairly comfortably. The habit of launching a diagonal from the back 4 or a ball over the top or Antonio's chest / head still persists even when Antonio is not on the pitch. In other words, little evidence of change aside from us moving it from side to side looking for openings or to a midfielder who invariably has to turn back. Got to get the whole team moving. Watching that Brighton game at home, the first Danish team we played all moved and played through us out from the back. Everton even did a few times. We don't. Guess that Moyes and Paul Nevin and/or Nolan or Mckinley? I list them all as I don't know what each of them do. It seems Nevin is in the ear of Moyes on the touchline so assume he works the tactics and formations and roles. Anyway, Soucek struggles in a system that involves moving the ball and himself at pace. He's not alone in that as mentioned. Passing at pace, moving beats the high press most teams put us under now. I see no real evidence of a change but see some players that might be able to play that way sitting on the bench. Maybe Moyes and coaching team are trying to slowly make the change? Not having Aguerd is not helping in that as he supposedly brings the ball out from the back rather than lauching an ""ale house ball"". Problem is Moyes doesn't have much time. Next 3 or 4 games he needs to make more significant changes to the way we play and we need to be good at it. The old existing players arent cut out for it so see little choice but to try be more bold?"

[Willtell]

"The problem I have with your opening paragraph Sir Alf is that I don't ever remember us playing 4-4-2 for years. I remember Harry Redknapp playing 3-5-2 but I have difficulty with the last time we played 4-4-2. As far back as I can recall we've played 4-5-1""¶"

[Sir Alf]

"Soucek was effective when first arriving in the sit deep, absorb pressure without the ball with 2 blocks of 4, keeping a good shape etc. and then hitting teams on the counter or scoring a high number of goals from set pieces. Since teams sussed us out and Moyes tried even last season to get us to keep the ball better Soucek has struggled badly. We try to move it side to side back and forth but Moyes does not realise you have to do it at a high tempo and with lots of movement and accurate passing. Soucek fails in at least 2 respects. He cannot move that fast and cannot pass that accurately and especially when rushed. Others like Fornals, Benny, Coufal, Cresswell, Antonio even Bowen at times suffer with either not being fast enough ( Cresswell, Coufal, Fornals as a wide option come to mind ) or unable to pass a ball consistently accurately enough ( Antonio, Benny, Coufal, Bowen turn it over too cheaply too often ). That's just too many to carry if you want to play fast, to feet and with lots of movement. Soucek has a role to play in the squad but not first choice in some of the Premiership games especially if there are players who can pass more accurately, under pressure but also put in the hard yards pressing. We do not know if Downes can play in the Premiership as he did in the Conference where there likely be less time on the ball and its faster? We have seen Paqueta struggling with that but then again he is also used to having lots of passing options and kept getting caught trying to turn with it or run with it as a result. We are told Moyes is holding Downes back and rumours of him not being ready based on observations in training. Dont know if there is any truth in it. But so far he ain't doing much better than Kral last season although he at least played the full 90 in the Conference competition. Why Scamacca and Cornet are not getting starts ior more minutes n the Premiership gawd knows? Chelsea 2nd half was the only game we saw more than 2 or 3 of the new signings on the pitch together."

[Willtell]

"Well everyone wants to argue about nothing today. I agreed with you but after playing really well against FCSB he didn't figure against Chelsea nor Everton. Sound reasons for wanting rid of Moyes but Downes has never played at PL level. Soucek has played 93 games and has 19 goals for WHU as well as 52 caps and 9 goals for Czech Republic. I agree with you as I want to see Downes start alongside Rice in the PL. On paper, Moyes is sticking by one of his proven favourites with mis-placed loyalty. Moyes needs to smell the coffee brewing..."

[Eerie Descent]

"Who said he needs to prove him in the PL before saying he's better than Soucek, that's irrelevant. Right now, Soucek wouldn't get in a pub side, so Downes deserves to start."

[Willtell]

"What's ""a terrible argument Eerie""? Agreeing with you?"

[Eerie Descent]

"That's a terrible argument. Soucek has produced some of the worst displays you'll see 8n the shirt this season. You can't just keep playing a player in that form. Although it was in Europe, Downes showed everyone he can play football. He was clear MOTM. He should 100% be given a chance ahead of Soucek, to not make that change is fucking scandalous."

[Willtell]

I agree with you entirely Eerie but as someone pointed out to me Downes needs to prove it in PL before you can say that he's better than Soucek. Maybe that's why Moyes doesn't want to play Downes and prove he's better than one of his favourites

[Eerie Descent]

"It doesn't matter who brought in the players, if you can't see that currently, Downes would be a better option than Soucek, and Cornet would be a better option than Fornals, the why's and what's of who signed who are completely fucking irrelevant. This really is basic stuff that anyone should be able to see. Forget who's ready, those 2 in particular have been disgustingly bad this season. We could go through half the team, but those 2 changes there a blind man can see"

[Ron Eff]

"It shouldn't matter who made the signings, its his job to see that this starting eleven needs refreshing, or that the system needs changing. His refusal to try anything different is stubborn in the extreme. His look of disgust when any player tries something slightly out of the ordinary is infuriating. He doesn't want people to be creative, he wants robots that do exactly as he says, which is get behind the ball and try to get lucky from a set piece. He won't be here for another transfer window."

[Manuel]

"miike - Yea, it maybe the case that as you say it was getting late so he than had to settle on second and third choices after missing his main targets, i.e Scamacca instead of Broja, Cornet instead of Kostic? So even though he bought them he's not convinced."

[Takashi Miike]

"I think it's 100% true, but he was clearly dragging his heels and it appeared he was about to reproduce the january window, only this time with an even slimmer squad. I haven't stopped slagging the owners but they delivered big time and he should be able to get something out of the new lads"

[Manuel]

"I get it's an important issue who brings the players in, as in the main it will very likely impact who the manager picks, or doesn't pick, but this seems to have become a very real problem with us now and has been going on for a couple of years now, not sure if it happens at other clubs? It seemed to be made clear that as from this summer Sullivan had handed over the reigns solely to Newman and Moyes, is that true? does anyone actually know? and if it is true could Newman go over Moyes's head and bring in players? It certainly doesn't appear that Moyes wanted Downes, for one. So what the fuck is going on? This ain't gonna end well, is it."

[Takashi Miike]

"""Even though Moyes has repeatedly asserted that only he gets to decide on signings."" Does he look like a manager who wanted these new players? He looks the complete opposite, a cսnt that hasn't got a clue what to do with them"