Moyes Out ( Released )

[Keep dreaming]

"Posted the same last year. Nothing has changed, except win don't win matches anymore. I'm fed up, we can do much better"

[Yarmouth]

"Russ of the BML 1:42 Mon Feb 6 Bang on right mate, 100% spot on."

[SurfaceAgentX2Zero]

Yorkammer Not really. Two of those five have played a total of one match between them since they canned their boss. That one match resulted in a win against the league leaders.

[Lee Trundle]

"Like like me suggesting both Chelsea and Brighton have changed their managers and are miles ahead of us, so that's proof we need to change our manager. We need a change of manager because Moyes has been shit for us, for over a year. I don't care what other clubs are doing, or what they've done."

[Yorkammer]

"""Of the bottom six clubs Moyes is the only manager left from when this season began."" Sounds like an argument not to change the manager as the 5 who have changed are still in the bottom 6."

[Willtell]

Look I want Moyes out but you're wrong saying he's defensive for setting 7 players behind the ball. I think you'll find every PL club has at least 7 players or more behind the ball. Only teams like Arsenal and Manchester City allow perhaps 5 or 6 players in front of the ball when attacking. WH only 2 or 3 is the problem

[,]

Of the bottom six clubs Moyes is the only manager left from when this season began.

[Takashi Miike]

"I get aggressive because I see him repeating the same mistakes and displaying the same ignorance/arrogance that cost the club millions when he had to move on multiple players on the cheap that he couldn't work with. For us, it's unsustainable to keep losing 10m+ on players because of the manager. It amazes how people can't see the end game with him as it happens again with scamacca and others. It also amazes how the tune changes after a fortunate draw against newcastle, and I say fortunate because it was another defeat without that world class tackle. Maybe we have turned the corner and things will keep improving, but I just see him reverting to his over cautious nature far too often - with the second half saturday as another example"

[Willtell]

"Thanks for that I hadn't seen that report or the podcast but those comments are out of context aren't they? They are Antonio speaking out of turn regarding what Moyes says when they go a goal down and Moyes doesn't want a big collapse. Perfectly understandable really but Moyes has survived over 1000 games because his team rarely if ever, gets walloped. Not because of what he wins. I don't know why you get all aggressive when we both agree he's not a good manager for WHU and needs to be changed as son as possible but it has to be for someone better and I can't see how Sullivan won't go for someone the same type of manager as Moyes..."

[Takashi Miike]

"no, I've not made up anything you thick cսnt https://greenstreethammers.com/2022/11/16/west-ham-antonio-moyes-tactics/ ""Last ten of a match you can probably go for it and try and get something if it's 1-0. But before that, if it's one goal, you can get that one goal from anything, it could be like a corner, a throw-in, they could score an own goal, anything can happen when it's 1-0. ""Just try not to concede two. Concede two, do not make it three""¶ just try and shut up shop so the game doesn't run away. """

[Willtell]

"I'm not defending Moyes! I'm saying posters like you should stop making up reasons to sack a manager. I also say he should be sacked for bad decision making, wasting money and dithering. Were you again making up lies that Antonio said Moyes set up to defend deep btw? You've not responded to my question on 'Moyes In' where you say that?"

[Takashi Miike]

"you really need to stop with this new 1000 games/40 years mantra you've suddenly decided to adopt when defending the indefensible. the jock twat played our record signing out of position for six months, had downes playing as a number ten and one of our most talented players (fornals) playing as a defensive winger. It's irrelevant how many fucking games he's managed"

[Willtell]

Sir Alf I think you (among others) misunderstand my meaning about Moyes. I see all his failings and mistakes as well as anyone and regularly say so. Sticking with players and doing the best to coach them back to form is his job. As a fan we can slag the useless cunts off but to say it's a reason to sack a man with over 1000 games and 40 years experience is not why he should go. He should go because his judgement is shit in too many management areas.

[Sir Alf]

"Willtell , I understand /.respect what you're saying and yes all changes suggested may not work but he will not try anything. Imo Areola gets ahead of Fab due to age, mobility and above all else his ability with his feet. Against the barcodes the passbacks to Fab always launched 70 yards back to tge opposition. Fab is a great shot stopper but he limits our ability to play out and with 3 at tge back and Aguerd we should be trying to keep possession especially at home against teams outside the top 5. Soucek ain't performed for so long. Oggys issue was more about injury recovery. Soucek even when ""in form""ù wasn't that good on the ball and was slow. His goals masked this imo. He needs to be moved on but holding Downes back is criminal just because Soucek was worth more once and plays for his country ( don't think he's worth more than 15 million currently ) . Moyes will continue to rank him above Downes probably because he is desperate for goals but teams have sussed him out. Soucek sadly was like so many players a one season wonder and fell apart form wise via second season syndrome. Again imho"

[Russ of the BML]

"It's getting so boring now. We can all sit here and point out the mistakes Moyes has and continues to make. The list is fucking endless. Bottom line - Moyes has been found out. His methods no longer work. He is uninspiring to the players and the fans and we are genuinely lucky to have as many points as we do. It's very likely we will be relegated with him as manager and what our owners are doing in giving him more games is beyond me. The problem for me is, even if Moyes turns it around and we do pick up enough points to stay up, is he the right man? For me, no. His short-comings, mistakes and just general incompetence has been laid bare for all to see so many times. The blokes a fucking depressing loser and, right now, I feel so detached from him and the team I just don't know how I feel about anything. I've gone numb."

[Stevethehammer]

"Antonio can no longer play the line striker role however in a Moyes team that's the only place he is gong to play. He should be upfront with Ings, not on his own. You can even see that Moyes will play Ings on his own upfront and that is not his game, mot by a long shot. Ings and Antonio upfront would get goals, Antonio coming off the wing in support of Ings would work. However he will play one up front and it will cost us games. I don't think for one second Antonio is finished but I think he is fed up every week of busting a nut upfront on his own with no help and no one around him for 10-15 yards until Bowen or Benrahma catch up."

[Willtell]

Oh OK Lee Trundle. I'll remember that excuse next time I get asked a question I can't answer without looking an idiot!

[Lee Trundle]

"Yeah, I'm not sure if I'll bother with this today. You've been on your stupid pills again."

[Willtell]

"Lee Trundle wrote... ""What have you seen form Antonio to think he's not finished with us?!""ù ""î""î""î""î""î""î""î""î His name on the team sheet and bids from other clubs rejected plus better performances. What have you seen to think Antonio is finished?"

[eusebiovic]

"I remember watching the Championship highlights for years and hoping we would sign Bowen. He was absolutely lethal at cutting in from the right and burying it in with his left peg. Our problem is we have no pace from the full back/wing back positions. Once this is addressed then you can double up and cover each others backs and you don't need to be so deep in the first place. Antonio or Schmacca are isolated on their own because the wingers are too deep covering the slow full backs/wing backs. A sassy, clued up manager would have identified this nice and early. Whether our chairman would have sanctioned spending £40 odd million on these positions is another matter altogether. Historically it seems as if he thinks these are the least important positions in the team to prioritise. It took him ages to realise we needed a couple of decent defensive midfielders and it was only Rice coming through that filled one of those roles without spending money."

[Lee Trundle]

What have you seen form Antonio to think he's not finished with us?!

[Willtell]

"Here's the thing Sir Alf. When Moyes eventually pushes Soucek into being a permanent reserve, he upsets a 56 cap international with a E45m valuation. (Transfermarkt Nov 2022). Soucek expects to be 1st choice and could become disruptive but Downes will buy into taking time. Moyes might be hoping he can motivate Soucek into being a E45m player again. It' daft I know but how many on here thought Antonio and Ogbonna were finished yet here they are again in a decent first team squad? Also I haven't seen evidence that Areola is ahead of Fabianski. Fab keeps playing well and doesn't deserve to be dropped. When managers make these kind of decisions it can often backfire with a bad performance from the number 2 that takes over. Who gets the blame for that? Making Antonio a wide player again sounds great in theory but do you drop Bowen or Benrahma to make way for him? Are Scamacca or Ings worth playing up top yet? Antonio already made noises about being treated as second fiddle CF. And yes easy to say ""Benrahma should play centrally and Bowen moved central or tried on the left his stronger foot iirc. Scamacca should be part of a forward pair not a lone striker and he still needs another pacy striker, CB and wing backs for the longer term."" You'd soon be the problem and not the solution in the real world Sir Alf."

[Sir Alf]

"Willtell, yes I do agree there is an arrogance that Moyes has and allied to an over inflated ego getting the better of him. That's what makes him so entrenched in his views. A psychologist would see it as insecurity and inadequate to dig in and show such reluctance to change. And I think that is some of it. The traits of someone with a closed mind who cannot adapt or change as circumstances change. Happens in all industries and I saw it a lot in my consulting days when working at failing organisations. Often a CEO brings a team in to help and they work out very soon he or she is the problem :-) Sticking to your guns can sometimes work but when you've mostly been losing games for 12 months the arrogance and ignorance is self harm and thinking Downes should be held back just one example of his stupidity. Anyway, he did finally work out that Paqueta was better as a deep lying number 8 although he needed to see it in the WC rather than doing a little Google search to see his failed spell at Milan as a number 10 versus his highly successful time at Lyon as a number 8. Now just needs to realise Downes is ahead of Soucek, Areola is ahead of Fabianski, Fornals should only play centrally, Antonio should be a wide player, Benrahma should play centrally and Bowen moved central or tried on the left his stronger foot iirc. Scamacca should be part of a forward pair not a lone striker and he still needs another pacy striker, CB and wing backs for the longer term. He might work one or two of these things or try them at least by 2025."

[Willtell]

"(Soucek') needs to be moved on and certainly not a first team starter and definitely behind Downes."" -------------------------------- Blatantly not correct in Moyes mind at least. I do agree with you about Downes being held back btw. I can't help but feel that from Moyes point of view it's not that simple. It's a fault of moyes to believe he knows best when to bring Downes through. Moyes spoke about his own historic ability to successfull bring Championship players on. He quoted several examples from his Everton days in justifying holding Downes back. It's what makes Moyes an arrogant cսnt of a man but managing a PL football club takes an arrogant, opinionated control freak imo. Unfortunately ours has to be stupid as well..."

[Keep dreaming]

Tha fact that you consider your posts as conversation sum yourself up. Got me in stitches

[Sir Alf]

"Willtell 7:12 Sun Feb 5 My opinion is that there are several factors at play behind our demise including tactics/ formations since other teams worked us out, playing players out of position, suspect recruitment but blind loyalty to players not performing is definitely a big part of it. Why they have declined is not all their fault and in this case I really mean Fornals who is and has always been played out if position after a period where it worked ( when we as a team were a surprise package). In the case of Cresswell it's , for me, simply age and injuries catching up. In the case of Soucek, it's a case of him being unknown and getting goals first season. or so when, as mentioned, we were a bit of a surprise opponent with much improved defence and organisation along with a quick counter attacking strategy. Once that was sussed, and we had to try to play against high pressing teams and try to play thru midfield more, Soucek's lack of technical ability and pace has been exposed. He is not suited to how we play and now an identified weakness. He needs to be moved on and certainly not a first team starter and definitely behind Downes. I drone on about this last part. This is undoubtedly where Moyes does himself no favours and in fact shows himself up as inadequate in the modern game. Well any era really. You don't play someone continually and look at their appalling stats and keep playing them just because they had some good performances a year or more ago. And you don't make a bloke wait a season just because he came up from the champiknship and just because that's what you've done in the past ( 20 years ago ) at Everton. You look at the player ( Downes ) performances and see with your eyes he is better than Soucek and look at his stats now and last season where he was the one of the top 2 or 3 central defensive midfielders in the Championship. He talked about how Soucek suffered from trying to get Rice forward. Yes because he wasn't suited to it technically and mobility wise. Guess what Downes is."