Converting players…

[threesixty]

I’ve always been impressed by a managers ability to convert players from 1 position to another and solve problems. Joe Linton from striker to midfield general etc..

Who would be a candidate for that in our team?

My shout would be AWB to Central Midfielder. Given that we have KWP who can play RB. 
I just think he has the skill, can time tackles very well (better than anyone on the team) and has pace.
Everything we lack in the midfield.

Who else?
 

[Niblets]

'Joe Linton'

FMOB

[southbankbornnbred]

Frank McAvennie was a midfielder when we signed him.

 

 

But Frank had already played a few games upfront in Scotland. Which is why Lyall, who knew what he was doing, pushed him up there after Goddard's injury.

[Massive Attack]

Bilic first played him there and Pellegrini developed him even further. Fuck all to do with Moyes and he admitted that himself upon his return stating to Rice "Fuck me you got good!".
 

[Mad Ferret]

Declan Rice from an alright Centre Half in to an outstanding Defensive Midfielder.

Thank you, Mr Moyes.

[Massive Attack]

Declan Rice from an alright Centre Half in to an outstanding Defensive Midfielder.

[Big head]

Ian Pearce springs to mind. 

 

[Jaan Kenbrovin]

Frank McAvennie was a midfielder when we signed him.

[Sir Alf]

Interesting discussion about Paqueta, converting players and shows our desperation.  

IMHO Paqueta is a number 8 lying a bit deeper with a little bit more space and time and not with his back to goal. He plays as no 8 for Brazil and was a standout player for Lyon when he played there as he can contribute defensively and is physically strong enough to win the ball and protect it. 

In terms of converting players, agree its probably AWB or, at a stretch, “Pot Head” Todibo to provide some speed, athleticism, strength in centre mid to plug that chasm Rice left.  Its the abject failure in replacing Rice that has cost us more than anything else IMO. Yes inadequate / disasterous transfer business in the striker and CB areas has also impacted but our drubbings and games like Monday night showed how non existent our central midfield is.  If Nuno leaves that area with less than 3 in there he is yet another who is gettingbpaud a lot of money but lacks the ability to “see the bleedin obvious”.  Compact, combative midfields win games as they get and keep the ball and its where most of the game is played. A strong midfield cuts out a lot of the dangers ( crosses, passes thru the lines etc) before they become a problem to the defence.  

Will Nuno convert someone to solve issues other than a false 9 ( which has never worked ) ?  I highly doubt it. He’s a bit too conservative usually although if last Monday is anything to go by… maybe not

[threesixty]

The issue is we can’t afford ready made great players who are not semi permanently on the injury table or are about 100 yrs old. 
We also can’t afford in a relegation scrap to bed in the kids now (Marshall looked like a child playing his first game yesterday). 
I don’t want us to buy more shitty players out of desperation in Jan. 

so we have to do something? 
Our midfield and defenders are just really really bad. 

I find it crazy that we let Aguerd and Emerson go and they are now half of Marseilles’s defence that’s top of the french league, 6 points clear of last years CL winners PSG!

we must look within out team and repurpose and get the best use out of our players somehow. 

[southbankbornnbred]

Or, to put it more simply, you can coach total football when you have the likes of Cryuff, Neeskens, Haan, Gullit, Rijkaard, Koeman and Van Basten.

We have Max Kilman.

[southbankbornnbred]

Under the right manager, and with a decent set of defenders around him, AWB is a top-class right back.

He was exposed against Chelsea - his worst game for us - simply because our defence is so porous that their midfield and attack were creating overloads at will. Too often, AWB was asked to keep track of two runners - and he go no help from a slow, immobile midfield.

He played badly that day, but I defy any right back to play well alongside those centre halves, and that central midfield, all season.

What I'm saying is: why change him to midfield? Play your best players in their best positions. If you do that all over the pitch, you'll have less need to panic and start experimenting with defenders in midfield and midfielders in attack.

We need to do the basics well first, before fannying around. That's the lesson of Monday night. Nuno was trying to be too clever too soon.

Friday night, one to eleven, play your best players in each position. Paqueta is Brazil's #8. Don't start him as a centre forward etc.

 

It’s not that I think he’s better in midfield. I think our choice of midfielders is shit and he being an all round better footballer than all our midfielders means the team could benefit with a change in position. More importantly, KWP isn’t bad at RB so you end up having 2 pretty good players in the 11.

in this league having someone who is a dedicated midfielder (JWP or Andy Irving) doesn’t solve your problems automatically if they are just shit players. Under no circumstances would you even dream of playing those 2 as RB or any other position. Which says a lot about the quality of AVB and any player we can identify that can play multiple positions competently. 

Finally, I’m an idealist I suppose. And Cruyffs ideas of total football where everyone can play any position is actually a good  thing rather than always specialised players. I like the idea that if you can control a ball well you should be useful all
over the pitch. You can teach positioning. But control, tackling, speed .. u need to have it. 

But it's harder to teach positioning to somebody who has never played as a central midfielder while his team is in a relegation dogfight and you can't afford the mistakes that get made while people are learning.

AWB has never played in central midfield. He's a good right back. Play him at right back. We don't need the distraction of mucking good players around in pursuit of an idealistic "total football" dream that gets us relegated.

Everybody likes the idea of total football. But you try coaching that ahead of an away game at Elland Road on a Friday night. Good luck!

[threesixty]

Under the right manager, and with a decent set of defenders around him, AWB is a top-class right back.

He was exposed against Chelsea - his worst game for us - simply because our defence is so porous that their midfield and attack were creating overloads at will. Too often, AWB was asked to keep track of two runners - and he go no help from a slow, immobile midfield.

He played badly that day, but I defy any right back to play well alongside those centre halves, and that central midfield, all season.

What I'm saying is: why change him to midfield? Play your best players in their best positions. If you do that all over the pitch, you'll have less need to panic and start experimenting with defenders in midfield and midfielders in attack.

We need to do the basics well first, before fannying around. That's the lesson of Monday night. Nuno was trying to be too clever too soon.

Friday night, one to eleven, play your best players in each position. Paqueta is Brazil's #8. Don't start him as a centre forward etc.

 

 

It’s not that I think he’s better in midfield. I think our choice of midfielders is shit and he being an all round better footballer than all our midfielders means the team could benefit with a change in position. More importantly, KWP isn’t bad at RB so you end up having 2 pretty good players in the 11.

in this league having someone who is a dedicated midfielder (JWP or Andy Irving) doesn’t solve your problems automatically if they are just shit players. Under no circumstances would you even dream of playing those 2 as RB or any other position. Which says a lot about the quality of AVB and any player we can identify that can play multiple positions competently. 

Finally, I’m an idealist I suppose. And Cruyffs ideas of total football where everyone can play any position is actually a good  thing rather than always specialised players. I like the idea that if you can control a ball well you should be useful all
over the pitch. You can teach positioning. But control, tackling, speed .. u need to have it. 

[Tomshardware]

AWB in centre midfield.......basically Soucek with more slide tackles.  His biggest limitations are his technical ability on the ball........which is like most of our other midfielders at the moment. 

Turning Hermadsen into the next Eyal Berkovic is our best bet at the moment 

I'm staggered that you're saying AWB is technically limited on the ball.  

[southbankbornnbred]

Under the right manager, and with a decent set of defenders around him, AWB is a top-class right back.

He was exposed against Chelsea - his worst game for us - simply because our defence is so porous that their midfield and attack were creating overloads at will. Too often, AWB was asked to keep track of two runners - and he go no help from a slow, immobile midfield.

He played badly that day, but I defy any right back to play well alongside those centre halves, and that central midfield, all season.

What I'm saying is: why change him to midfield? Play your best players in their best positions. If you do that all over the pitch, you'll have less need to panic and start experimenting with defenders in midfield and midfielders in attack.

We need to do the basics well first, before fannying around. That's the lesson of Monday night. Nuno was trying to be too clever too soon.

Friday night, one to eleven, play your best players in each position. Paqueta is Brazil's #8. Don't start him as a centre forward etc.

[honky cat]

One of the most successful position changes was Antonio of course. But I'd sooner buy what we need rather than converting players. I don't think we have the luxury to experiment right now, as seen on Monday.


​​​​​​

 

[Lee Trundle]

I can't stand this.

There's a reason why a player has played 99% of his life in that one position.

[threesixty]

AWB in centre midfield.......basically Soucek with more slide tackles.  His biggest limitations are his technical ability on the ball........which is like most of our other midfielders at the moment. 

Turning Hermadsen into the next Eyal Berkovic is our best bet at the moment 

 

Interesting you think AWB is limited technically? I think he’s one of our best on the ball technically, light years ahead of Soucek and JWP etc.. And he’s not slow at all. Strange what some people see…

The main part of him leaving United was him struggling in the final third with his quality of crosses. He also got moved back from RW to RB i guess for his limitations going forward. He doesnt strike me as a good ball striker or a great touch etc. 

I see the thinking I just don't see any attributes to make AWB a central midfield player. If we were going to convert him anywhere it would be as a CB for me. 

 

 

Wouldn’t be asking him to cross in a CM position. I’d just want him to get around the pitch more at speed and break up play and make a forward pass. The main reason for me is when I see him play he doesn’t get bullied off the ball and can really tackle. None of our midfielders do any of that. He’s sort of the nearest in ability to a Declan rice in terms of basic play. Rice also came from a defence background. 

I did wonder about Todibo and kilman too but Todibo just looks unfit and kilman too slow. 

[ATHammer]

Sullivan wants to convert Paqueta and Bowen to cash. Does that count?

[northbankboy68]

An obvious one for me is Soucek as CB.  He often helps out there in dead ball plays and has become static in midfield.  He could still go up front for corners.

[El Scorchio]

AWB in centre midfield.......basically Soucek with more slide tackles.  His biggest limitations are his technical ability on the ball........which is like most of our other midfielders at the moment. 

Turning Hermadsen into the next Eyal Berkovic is our best bet at the moment 

 

Interesting you think AWB is limited technically? I think he’s one of our best on the ball technically, light years ahead of Soucek and JWP etc.. And he’s not slow at all. Strange what some people see…

The main part of him leaving United was him struggling in the final third with his quality of crosses. He also got moved back from RW to RB i guess for his limitations going forward. He doesnt strike me as a good ball striker or a great touch etc. 

I see the thinking I just don't see any attributes to make AWB a central midfield player. If we were going to convert him anywhere it would be as a CB for me. 

I'd be tempted to try him at CB, at the very least as the third one if we played a three. At 6 foot he's just about tall enough and he's faster than anyone we have there, BUT I think he'd get bullied by strikers and he'd need someone really physical beside him to make up for it. And sadly the other CBs we have are a bunch of fucking pansies.

[El Scorchio]

Paul Warhurst?
Steve Watson?

[Rossal]

AWB in centre midfield.......basically Soucek with more slide tackles.  His biggest limitations are his technical ability on the ball........which is like most of our other midfielders at the moment. 

Turning Hermadsen into the next Eyal Berkovic is our best bet at the moment 

 

Interesting you think AWB is limited technically? I think he’s one of our best on the ball technically, light years ahead of Soucek and JWP etc.. And he’s not slow at all. Strange what some people see…

The main part of him leaving United was him struggling in the final third with his quality of crosses. He also got moved back from RW to RB i guess for his limitations going forward. He doesnt strike me as a good ball striker or a great touch etc. 

I see the thinking I just don't see any attributes to make AWB a central midfield player. If we were going to convert him anywhere it would be as a CB for me. 

[El Scorchio]

I think it's more based on the player's attributes than the manager's quality. It could be argued that a good manager wouldn't have to do that because he'd have what he needs in the right positions already (but of course that relies on good recruitment too which we do not have) It's not on Potter, Lop or Nuno that Paqueta or Bowen can't really play up front for example- they just can't do it. They aren't suited to it. It's a rare player who could probably play almost anywhere on the park and still even be effective- let alone good. Gerrard is a good example, he was just that good that he could have played outfield anywhere and been good. Most players are nowhere near that complete.

Joelinton is interesting. he was being called a flop at first, but I think his success at a different position is more an exception to the rule and a happy accident than something that's easy to do- otherwise it would happen all the time. Mostly when we've tried it, it might work for a game or two but the player sooner or later is exposed as not a natural in that position and you're back to square one. It might be worth trying AWB there, just because we at least won't be massively downgraded at RB if we did. But then is he going to be a better midfielder than the players we have? Sure he will be quicker but it counts for nothing if he can't read the game well or spot passes as a midfielder rather than a right back. Todibo might be a candidate too, but while he has some qualities, i think he'd be far too unfit to do it.

To think of another example where it's worked well though, Phil Neville- also interestingly from full back to CM, but as I said, it's not a straightforward thing and there's a reason it's so rare. Of course Bonzo played Right back, Midfield and Centre Back for us as well.

[threesixty]

AWB in centre midfield.......basically Soucek with more slide tackles.  His biggest limitations are his technical ability on the ball........which is like most of our other midfielders at the moment. 

Turning Hermadsen into the next Eyal Berkovic is our best bet at the moment 

 

 

Interesting you think AWB is limited technically? I think he’s one of our best on the ball technically, light years ahead of Soucek and JWP etc.. And he’s not slow at all. Strange what some people see…

[Rossal]

AWB in centre midfield.......basically Soucek with more slide tackles.  His biggest limitations are his technical ability on the ball........which is like most of our other midfielders at the moment. 

Turning Hermadsen into the next Eyal Berkovic is our best bet at the moment