Billy Bonds, the Guardian .. and me

[Outer Cape]

Yesterday I listened to the Guardian Football Weekly Podcast. I was dissatisfied with the tribute paid to our Billy. So, I sent them an email expressing my dissatisfaction and to their credit they responded immediately. 

Credit goes to "Coffee One Sugar" who wrote a moving piece on the main "King Billy" thread. 

This is what I sent the Guardian. 

Hi Max, Barney and Barry, 

I’ve been a loyal listener to the podcast for years and continue to enjoy the work you and the team do. Keep it up.However, the brief note appended to the end of the West Ham - Liverpool match report felt inadequate and, to be honest, borderline disrespectful.

A quick look at social media or YouTube shows the enormous and heartfelt outpouring of grief for a true club legend.I’d suggest sending a couple of your team to the next home game against Aston Villa to really understand what he meant to the club and its supporters.

As a keen listener, I’ve also noticed the growing disaffection among several contributors (Barney, Jonathan, Barry, for example) with the underlying business model of the modern game: the match-day entertainment packages, the transactional focus, surge pricing, gambling sponsors, irrelevant cups and competitions, corrupt organizations, human-rights-abuse sportswashing, and the media’s obsession with personalities and trivia.

Never has the gap between what Billy Bonds stood for and what the modern game represents felt so wide.

For context, the message below appeared on the West Ham fan site westhamonline.co.uk just hours after his death was announced.

This was written by “Coffee One Sugar”    

"He was, and still is, an integral part of my growing up as a West Ham fan. When his name was on the team sheet, you knew, you really knew, that the team would put up a fight, even when it ended up in defeat which was not infrequent.

He was usually the first one out of the dressing room afterwards while the others yapped and drank their milk or bottle of light ale or whatever they did knock back at that time. He was a captain you could look up to, respect, and know that his first priority was always the interest of the club and its supporters. 

He was the kind of man you could look up to even from the distance of the terraces. He had a presence on the field and was held in obvious respect by his team mates. He gave you confidence that you wouldn't be overcome by sheer effort or fight, nor by and in the joint effort of team and fan.

I shall miss him, not because I knew the man but for the sense of justified pride that his memory cannot and will not erase. They say you cannot measure a player by trophies and medals alone. If you could, the record books would gleam with the name of Billy Bonds.

But his legacy is not carved from silver or gold; it is etched into the very soul of a football club, into the stands of Upton Park, and into the hearts of generations who were privileged to call him their own.

To watch Billy Bonds play was to understand the very essence of West Ham United. He was not merely a player who wore the claret and blue; he was its living, breathing, battling embodiment. For over two decades, he was the constant, the rock, the leader. 

He was a force of nature, a player whose heart seemed to beat with the collective pulse of the terraces. He didn't just cover every blade of grass; he claimed it, defended it, and poured his being into it.

His tackles were not just challenges; they were statements of intent, roars of defiance that echoed around the Boleyn Ground.

And what a captain he was. He didn't need an armband to lead, but he wore it with a king's authority and a soldier's humility. He was the man you would follow into battle, because you knew he would be the first into the breach and the last to leave.

He led with a clenched fist, a determined stare, and an action that screamed: Follow Me. 

But beyond the warrior, there was a craftsman. Beyond the grit, there was grace. He could truly play. He was a fusion of iron and silk, of passion and precision, each taking the fore when circumstance demanded.

His legacy is multi-faceted. It lies in the standards he set - that of unwavering commitment, and of putting everything on the line for your cause. 

He is the benchmark against which every captain, every player, and every heart that beats claret and blue is measured."

I have nothing to add to the above. To reduce the tribute to a verbal caricature of a southeast London geezer falls way short of the mark. 

Best regards,

Adrian Nunn
San Francisco, CA 


This is the reply I received from Barry Glendenning, the chief football writer at the Guardian 


Hi Adrian,

Thanks for the mail. You say you found our tribute to Billy inadequate and borderline disrespectful but don't explain why, beyond describing it as "a verbal caricature of a southeast London geezer". That bears little or no relation to the tribute I remember hearing at the time and none to the tribute I just re-listened to, in case it had in some way got completely mangled in the edit and emerged sounding inadequate and disrespectful. That is not the case. 

Billy’s love for West Ham, his legendary status, his uncompromising excellence as a player and leader, his striking looks and athletic physique, his longevity and his legendary status were all mentioned, as well as the incontrovertible fact that he was from south-east London, the same neck of the woods as Barney, who spoke about him with obvious fondness, bordering on reverence: "He was a very reassuring figure: you liked him, you respected him ... he was a perfect professional." 

I am very sorry for what is obviously a sad loss for you and other West Ham fans, and while it's not for me to dictate what you or anyone else should find inadequate or offensive, I think you're way wide of the mark in saying we were even remotely disrespectful to Billy’s memory or legacy. 

Cheers,

Barry  

[zico]

As well as Billy not getting a cap how Pop Robson never got one, I'll never know?

Can't agree more.  Think Pop was top scorer in the division one season and still didn't get a cap.  Dev, only 8 caps,  Cottee only 7, you could probably make an argument for the likes of David Cross. Even Sir Trevor's 47 caps seems ridiculously low considering the way they give them out like confetti now.  Billy was going to play against Brazil but of course Big Phil clattered him and broke a few ribs which sadly denied him the opportunity but that was in 1981 so I'm quite baffled why Ron didn't pick him earlier.  Ok we were in the second division but Ron still picked Trevor.  Would have been the perfect squad player as he could play right back, centre back, midfield and suspect he could even have done a job up front, but guess they didn't think much about versatile players in those days.  

[Far Cough UKunt]

As well as Billy not getting a cap how Pop Robson never got one, I'll never know?

[Massive Attack]

I could be well wide of the mark as I sadly never got to see him play other than from the vids/clips that occasionally fly around but have tried my best to understand what he meant to his generation - I.e. my Father's era.

He struck me as a man in the side that when a Team mate was in trouble on the pitch, be it from an opposition bully, a Ref, or the crowd he would be a major reassuring presence for anyone to see he's got their back and inspire them to do what they did best for the Team. That's the essence of a quality Captain performing his role. As long as Billy's by my side, I'll be OK. Of the Roy Keane mould is how it comes across who would lack technical ability but my God would more than make up for it in having a proper pair of bollocks and stand up to ANYONE for the sake of his Team mates, fans and Club he loved dearly. Only difference between them two from what I understand of Billy though is he was very firm but always fair by not trying to injure or ruin anyone's career, only honesty ran through his veins until his recent death. That's an incredibly fine balance to walk but he did it better than anyone by the sounds of it. At a time when he was up against the dirtiest of Leeds and Chelsea sides who thought they could bully anyone into submission. Well not our Bill.

Not even intimidated by an Arsenal side in an FA Cup Final against the odds as a real underdog as the last Team to win it from the lower divisions. That says it all as our inspirational Captain that led us to an unlikely victory in the glorious sun.

Just by listening to him, his former Team mates, Managers, my Father or other West Ham fans of that time that he was a truly special Footballing individual and any opposition Fan would be jealous that he wasn't ever their Captain.

And an absolute scandal he never got a single England cap for all his qualities. By the sounds of it, it should have been many. England's loss was our entire gain. What a fucking legacy he left behind.

[only1billybonds]

Swiss, this isn't about whether Bonds was better or not as good as player XY or Z, its about what the bloke represented to the people who watched him every week. Moore, Brooking, Devonshire,  Di Canio etc all outshone him on a technical level and were far more skillful players. But do a survey of fans (of that time) and ask them to pick any West Ham player from history to have alongside you in a trench/fight and it would be a landslide in Bill's favour. I've been watching the game since the late 60's,been to dozens of grounds and have formed friendships with supporters of loads of other clubs and I have yet to see any one player held in the regard by fans as Bonds was. If you really don't get what made him so special to us then you really don't have much idea about being a supporter of West Ham United

[WHU(Exeter)]

Because for a start, it's not just about ability, but numerous other attributes.

Hughes had the luxury of playing for a team who were winning things year in, year out.

Had he been in the position of being at a relegated club, he'd have been off like a rat.

One of them cashed in as a newspaper big mouthed twat, who lessened the respect the wider football fandom had for him before.

The other was Billy Bonds, who kept his silence and integrity. That's rare in football, especially modern day football.

That's one of the reasons he stands out.

[honky cat]

I think the difference with billy v bobby, was most of us on here actually saw billy play and he was part of our youth and we watched the two cup finals. So its upsetting. Bobby is a legend because he captained england to its only world cup, as well as being a west ham great, so his death would have affected people who dont support west ham - particularly as he was still quite young.

i think its great that some fans of other clubs who are also our generation are sympathising. I do feel a tinge of sadness when other clubs' players of this era die, but i think its also sadness for the passing of time and the experiences we had at the football when we were young.

​​​​​

 

[Swiss.]

I give you Bobby Moore a legend for example but really when it comes to West Ham players on here it seems everyone has taken the Cool-Aid. 

[Swiss.]

Swiss.

Fuck me, that is a totally unsurpassed level of ignorance even by your exceedingly low standards.

 

So what made him exception as a player/.defender over say Emlyn Hughes?  

[Takashi Miike]

I've dug out the article as I used to keep all that kind of stuff in a scrapbook when I was a youngster.

It was actually titled "They're killing my game" and he said "When I came into football, it wasn't about stopping people playing. You were taught to go out and express yourself - but now it's different. The first thing people say these days is how can we destroy the opposition and stop them from playing"

Physically he would have been ideal for that and the modern game, but he had the integrity to call it out for what it was quickly becoming.

ex, it's why it would wind me up when they praised animals/thugs like ron harris for being hard men. bill was a genuine tough guy, and would only take it up a level if someone was taking liberties. I have the same view about julian, who was technically brilliant yet lost the plot with piss takers

when you had a similarly tough player like keith robson idolizing bill, it showed how much respect he had from the rest of the team

[WHU(Exeter)]

I've dug out the article as I used to keep all that kind of stuff in a scrapbook when I was a youngster.

It was actually titled "They're killing my game" and he said "When I came into football, it wasn't about stopping people playing. You were taught to go out and express yourself - but now it's different. The first thing people say these days is how can we destroy the opposition and stop them from playing"

Physically he would have been ideal for that and the modern game, but he had the integrity to call it out for what it was quickly becoming.

[Massive Attack]

Swiss, the England cap is irrelevant. Why should he be revered by supporters of other clubs? Because supporters of certain generations (of any club), saw in him a player who gave 100% and one who epitomised absolute commitment. Look at his attitude, drive, commitment and everything he brought to the club as a captain vs the prima donnas of the modern game, who tend to think of themselves first over the clubs they represent.

He was the perfect example of that and years back one of the papers (can’t remember which), did a two page spread titled “football is dying” and the player they used to highlight the difference between the game of old and the ‘modern game’ was Billy Bonds.

Fans of other clubs also recognise this.

He was absolutely old school, but he also gave his everything to be as fit as possible, something that a lot of players from that generation didn’t bother too much about, another reason he stood out. He stood for a player putting the club above himself, connecting with the fans, knowing how much it meant - that might not sound ‘all that’ to you, but compare that with most players in this day and age.

Again, fans from other clubs who’ve been following the game for decades DO appreciate this and recognise his importance, not just to West Ham, but to what the game was, when it was a lot fucking better than it is today.

Plus he had the integrity to show up Redknapp for what he is. Chalk and cheese. It’s fantastic that fans of other clubs can pay homage to a player who epitomised what the game should all be about and no longer is.

Emlyn Hughes blocked Bill's path to more caps, as he offered that same positional flexibility but also played for those cunts. For me, Bill was a much better player

The old man would say the same.

[Takashi Miike]

Swiss, the England cap is irrelevant. Why should he be revered by supporters of other clubs? Because supporters of certain generations (of any club), saw in him a player who gave 100% and one who epitomised absolute commitment. Look at his attitude, drive, commitment and everything he brought to the club as a captain vs the prima donnas of the modern game, who tend to think of themselves first over the clubs they represent.

He was the perfect example of that and years back one of the papers (can’t remember which), did a two page spread titled “football is dying” and the player they used to highlight the difference between the game of old and the ‘modern game’ was Billy Bonds.

Fans of other clubs also recognise this.

He was absolutely old school, but he also gave his everything to be as fit as possible, something that a lot of players from that generation didn’t bother too much about, another reason he stood out. He stood for a player putting the club above himself, connecting with the fans, knowing how much it meant - that might not sound ‘all that’ to you, but compare that with most players in this day and age.

Again, fans from other clubs who’ve been following the game for decades DO appreciate this and recognise his importance, not just to West Ham, but to what the game was, when it was a lot fucking better than it is today.

Plus he had the integrity to show up Redknapp for what he is. Chalk and cheese. It’s fantastic that fans of other clubs can pay homage to a player who epitomised what the game should all be about and no longer is.

Emlyn Hughes blocked Bill's path to more caps, as he offered that same positional flexibility but also played for those cunts. For me, Bill was a much better player

[WHU(Exeter)]

Swiss, the England cap is irrelevant. Why should he be revered by supporters of other clubs? Because supporters of certain generations (of any club), saw in him a player who gave 100% and one who epitomised absolute commitment. Look at his attitude, drive, commitment and everything he brought to the club as a captain vs the prima donnas of the modern game, who tend to think of themselves first over the clubs they represent.

He was the perfect example of that and years back one of the papers (can’t remember which), did a two page spread titled “football is dying” and the player they used to highlight the difference between the game of old and the ‘modern game’ was Billy Bonds.

Fans of other clubs also recognise this.

He was absolutely old school, but he also gave his everything to be as fit as possible, something that a lot of players from that generation didn’t bother too much about, another reason he stood out. He stood for a player putting the club above himself, connecting with the fans, knowing how much it meant - that might not sound ‘all that’ to you, but compare that with most players in this day and age.

Again, fans from other clubs who’ve been following the game for decades DO appreciate this and recognise his importance, not just to West Ham, but to what the game was, when it was a lot fucking better than it is today.

Plus he had the integrity to show up Redknapp for what he is. Chalk and cheese. It’s fantastic that fans of other clubs can pay homage to a player who epitomised what the game should all be about and no longer is.

[Massive Attack]

They don't have to, you're right. However it shows their ignorance as to what he achieved in the game as a 2 time FA Cup winning Captain, as well as a Cup Winners Cup and League Cup Finalist. His achievements in the game are something to be seriously admired and he did it by playing fair and square with honesty.

The 2 minutes or so of guff they churned out about unfunny ill-timed jokes and "there's a photo on the Internet floating around somewhere of him doing some weights" just goes to show how wide of the mark they are on paying such a heartfelt tribute that did so much in the game, as almost a one Club man full of genuine loyalty and love of a Football Club. 

799 appearances alone as an all action outfield player is a remarkable achievement but they barely touch on it. It was hardly worth being brought up as a talking point if that was going to be how they approached Billy Bonds. 

They clearly didn't have a clue what the fuck they were attempting to talk about and either should have swerved it altogether, or better still genned up quickly and gave it a proper go like they would a more mainstream name whilst cutting out the silly childish joke about his name just for a cheap laugh. 

Bonds was a rare breed that deserves the utmost respect and appreciation if you truly knew your Football, which these bunch of nobodies clearly don't.

[only1billybonds]

Swiss.

Fuck me, that is a totally unsurpassed level of ignorance even by your exceedingly low standards.

[Swiss.]

Billy Bonds was great for us but why should he be revered the same as other clubs. Yes he played a long time but never got an England cap. West ham were a pretty crap team when he played except for the 2 FA cup wins we were shit in the league (nothing changes). 

[Takashi Miike]

This is interesting because I listened to the Guardian podcast. I found that, in common with other media articles, it was once again respectful of the player and understanding of the affection us WHU fans held for him. The professional media have not contributed one iota of denigration of Bonds as a man ( the most important bit ) or as a player.

let’s not get into the mindset of measuring the level of appreciation of Bonds such that we deem certain missives incorrect or insufficient because that is tantamount to us acting in a Liverpudlian way. We are way better than that.

liverpudlian way? if you can't say something sensible or respectful about arguably our greatest every hammer, you deserve every bit of negativity in return. as I've said before, rushden's a yid that's never had a good word to say about us

you want a correct way to pay tribute, have a listen to the achtung millwall video I posted on the king billy thread

[Tomshardware]

I thought the same Massive, they don't seem to get his stature at the club and the joke was in poor taste.  Still I think we've all seen that the people who really count (fans of clubs up and down the country) know his true status as a West Ham legend and in the game of football itself. 

[Massive Attack]

Gilts* cunty autocorrect 

[Massive Attack]

Having listened to it I actually thought they reduced his memory at the end of their 'tribute' by taking the piss about his name. Suggesting the Club should use the opportunity now to make money out of the fans named after him as Billy Guilts, before laughing amongst themselves as he currently lays cold somewhere since Sunday. Yes, too fucking right it was too soon you disrespectful twats.

Now if they really knew their Football and the touchy subject of the infamous Bonds Scheme involving the Club, they would steer well clear of that kind of joke after the death of such a West Ham great.

28 mins in..

https://www.theguardian.com/football/au ... all-weekly

[Massive Attack]

Nah, fuck him. Baz the sanctimonious spaz sounds like a know-nothing shitcunt who should just stick to waxing lyrical about such Mackem greats as, Titus Bramble. Well done, Cape, on pulling him up about it. 

[,]

This is interesting because I listened to the Guardian podcast. I found that, in common with other media articles, it was once again respectful of the player and understanding of the affection us WHU fans held for him. The professional media have not contributed one iota of denigration of Bonds as a man ( the most important bit ) or as a player.

let’s not get into the mindset of measuring the level of appreciation of Bonds such that we deem certain missives incorrect or insufficient because that is tantamount to us acting in a Liverpudlian way. We are way better than that.

[Nurse Ratched]

Fuck it’s true at 19:53

It's a fecking liberty is what it is.

[Mex Martillo]

Fuck it’s true at 19:53

[Mex Martillo]

Wait till you find out Stubbo fixed the WHO clock...

 

 

Oh fuck, did he. That is sad. It’ll be no swearing next. I’m not sure Scunthorpe threads will stop it this time.